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Internet Message Format | 1993-02-28 | 7.5 KB

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 93 14:56:55 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Richard Stallman)
To: [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail], [e-mail]
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]> (message from Kresten Krab Thorup on Wed, 17 Feb 1993 19:15:03 +0100)
Subject: gnu objc runtime

Keep in mind that the version we distribute *must* not use WEB.
It *must* be straight C.

I must warn you that if you take a modified version of the runtime and
WEBify it, it will be absolutely impossible for me to consider installing
that.  The only way I could even consider adopting a WEB file as the "real"
source is if there is *absolutely no* other change from the source
currently installed.

To put this another way, I have to consider changes *as diffs* one at a
time.  If you put this file into WEB, the result will look totally
different.  The diff will be so big that I simply won't be able to
consider it.

If you want any of your changes to be installed, then you must stop making
more changes and first attend to the changes you have already made.  You
need to split them into individual units, each of which could be installed
on its own, and each of which addresses one problem.  Then I can accept
some of these and reject others.

If you charge ahead making more changes without attending to the
installation of those you have already made, the result is that in
practice there is no possibility of installing any of your changes.

Return-Path: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1993 21:59:25 +0100
From: Kresten Krab Thorup <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: gnu objc runtime

   If you want any of your changes to be installed then you must stop
   making more changes and first attend to the changes you have already
   made. You need to split them into individual units each of which could
   be installed on its own and each of which addresses one problem. Then I
   can accept some of these and reject others.

Let me put it this way: I have been working intensively with the
runtime for about a week or two, and what I come up with is
sustantially different from the one currently distributed.  I don't
expect you to accept that right away -- so what I have been trying to
tell you is that I am ready to offer the time needed to write a
complete and detailed documentation for the entire runtime including
my changes and the original code.

This documentation of mine should be considered a basis for making
changes to your original code, and making it possible to discuss it in
a wider community.  I dont expect you to accept it just like that.
Besides that, it would be of some interest to future objc programmers,
as it would include descriptions, and comments on alternative
implementations.

If you can promise me to study a such document carefully and honestly,
I will be very glad.  Please...

   I must warn you that if you take a modified version of the runtime and
   WEBify it, it will be absolutely impossible for me to consider installing
   that.  The only way I could even consider adopting a WEB file as the "real"
   source is if there is *absolutely no* other change from the source
   currently installed.

If this is not acceptable, I am willing to WEBify the original code,
and start from there.  The facilities for documentation are cruical,
and can certainly help us avoid misunderstanding each other.

/Kresten

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Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1993 21:53:11 +0100
From: Kresten Krab Thorup <[e-mail]>
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To: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Subject: gnu objc runtime
Cc: [e-mail],
        then.you.must.stop.making.more.changes.and.first.attend.to.the.changes.yo[e-mail],
        [e-mail],
        and.each.of.which.addresse[e-mail]

Let me put it this way: I have been working intensively with the
runtime for about a week or two, and what I come up with is
sustantially different from the one currently distributed.  I don't
expect you to accept that right away -- so what I have been trying to
tell you is that I am ready to offer the time needed to write a
complete and detailed documentation for the entire runtime including
my changes and the original code.

This documentation of mine should be considered a basis for making
changes to your original code, and making it possible to discuss it in
a wider community.  I dont expect you to accept it just like that.
Besides that, it would be of some interest to future objc programmers,
as it would include descriptions, and comments on alternative
implementations.

If you can promise me to study a such document carefully and honestly,
I will be very glad.  Please...

   I must warn you that if you take a modified version of the runtime and
   WEBify it, it will be absolutely impossible for me to consider installing
   that.  The only way I could even consider adopting a WEB file as the "real"
   source is if there is *absolutely no* other change from the source
   currently installed.

If this is not acceptable, I am willing to WEBify the original code,
and start from there.  The facilities for documentation are cruical,
and can certainly help us avoid misunderstanding each other.

/Kresten


Return-Path: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 04:53:16 +0100
From: Kresten Krab Thorup <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: gnu objc runtime
Cc: [e-mail], [e-mail]


> Is it possible, using WEB, to get a C program that includes comments and
> is readable, much as the present program is readable?  If so, then it is
> okay for us to have a WEB program.  We can distribute both that and the C
> program that is made from it.

A local phd student fixed up Knuth's cweb to allow some kind of grammar
like rules (LR0) for specifying the formatting.  This is what I used
for my objc-web.  Though the present version strips comment and indentation
when producing C code, I can easily fix it up so it doesn't.

I do not regard my participation in this as only supplying patches
which are then accepted or discarded.  Neither do I think of my code
as something you must absolutely accept. I have a lot of ideas, which
would be nice to *discuss* and then perhaps implement bit by bit.

I have started writing a document describing various ways to do
initialization and various messengers corresponding to that.  I will
post it to the gnu-objc list within a day or two.  Hopefully we can
then get some wider community to participate in choosing the right
combination.

/Kresten